H. You guys are an irrelevance, you can't talk to the Prime Minister, you can't talk to Bill Gates, but the mainstream church can. If the Bishop criticises the government, it's front page news for a week, talk about leverage.
D. Well, I think that Jesus was an irrelevance to Rome too.
H. Absolutely! Jesus could not speak to Rome, but his followers could and that's a great thing! Constantine turning to Christianity is the best news since the Resurrection. What would we have been if this had not happen, another obscure sect that would have never taken on? Have you got any idea how many lives have been changed because of Constantinian Christianity?
D. In my opinion Jesus was clever enough to have a friendly chat with Pilates, it that had been what he was on about. But that was not it. I think he was on creating a new way of being together, quite apart from the structures of Empire. We're meant to be new creations. You've read the Costly Grace chapter right?
H. Your thing, your "discipleship and solidarity" thing, it sounds good over a glass of wine, but it will never work, it will never take on. I mean, I take it back, maybe it will for twenty people, and those twenty people will still be an irrelevance.
D. Bloody hell, I never thought we'd enact The Grand Inquisitor right in your living room. This is so existential, I feel like it's the biggest question ever asked. I don't know, I was looking for something else, the pearl of great value for which you would sell anything.
H. But you're not consistent! Just today you asked me to get a salad from the shop. Maybe that's from Kenya you know. You're not consistent. It's a rich kids' concern your stuff. It's not even real. You remind me of the college kids that set up a socialist workers' stand in the street. It's not real. Your ideals are too far removed from practice.
D. You're right I'm not consistent, and I don't even know anyone who is. But I know some who try, who try their hardestest, and I think that's beautiful. So I'm not committed? I say it's a continuum, I know people who are 85% consistent. While your conservative congregation, we're happy if they're 1% committed. Have they ever engaged with the stuff?
H. Don't criticise my people. I'm grateful that they're 1% committed, that pays the bills.
D. What bills? Your fucking leaking roof? Their investments are literally killing people in other parts of the world.
H. Yeah, the church's leaking roof. If that's all I achieve, then that's all I achieve. And anyway, a lot of people who are 1% committed will achieve a hell of a lot more than your handful of 20 weirdos who are 85% committed.
D. I'm not sure, but you might be depriving them of the Gospel.
H. No YOU are betraying the Gospel by turning it into an elitist club for saintly middle class freaks and implying that everybody else is out.
D. But hell H, we need the saintly freaks! More than ever. I don't know what drives you, but I think I really like that Leon Bloy quote that "Any Christian who is not a hero is a pig". And you know what? That church structure you've got, I don't like it. You say you've got lots of people knocking on the door asking for food or petrol money and that you do what you can. My point is, they shouldn't all be knocking on YOUR door. What's the congregation doing? What solidarity exists between your folks? Are we all locked into a liberal panopticon of sorts? I need to be challenged.
H. You're right, in a way, you're right and I do challenge them. But you walking about blatantly hating their guts is not the way to do it.
D. So civilised dining with the conservative members of your church is the way forward.
H. Oh yes, it is.
D. Well, I think that Jesus was an irrelevance to Rome too.
H. Absolutely! Jesus could not speak to Rome, but his followers could and that's a great thing! Constantine turning to Christianity is the best news since the Resurrection. What would we have been if this had not happen, another obscure sect that would have never taken on? Have you got any idea how many lives have been changed because of Constantinian Christianity?
D. In my opinion Jesus was clever enough to have a friendly chat with Pilates, it that had been what he was on about. But that was not it. I think he was on creating a new way of being together, quite apart from the structures of Empire. We're meant to be new creations. You've read the Costly Grace chapter right?
H. Your thing, your "discipleship and solidarity" thing, it sounds good over a glass of wine, but it will never work, it will never take on. I mean, I take it back, maybe it will for twenty people, and those twenty people will still be an irrelevance.
D. Bloody hell, I never thought we'd enact The Grand Inquisitor right in your living room. This is so existential, I feel like it's the biggest question ever asked. I don't know, I was looking for something else, the pearl of great value for which you would sell anything.
H. But you're not consistent! Just today you asked me to get a salad from the shop. Maybe that's from Kenya you know. You're not consistent. It's a rich kids' concern your stuff. It's not even real. You remind me of the college kids that set up a socialist workers' stand in the street. It's not real. Your ideals are too far removed from practice.
D. You're right I'm not consistent, and I don't even know anyone who is. But I know some who try, who try their hardestest, and I think that's beautiful. So I'm not committed? I say it's a continuum, I know people who are 85% consistent. While your conservative congregation, we're happy if they're 1% committed. Have they ever engaged with the stuff?
H. Don't criticise my people. I'm grateful that they're 1% committed, that pays the bills.
D. What bills? Your fucking leaking roof? Their investments are literally killing people in other parts of the world.
H. Yeah, the church's leaking roof. If that's all I achieve, then that's all I achieve. And anyway, a lot of people who are 1% committed will achieve a hell of a lot more than your handful of 20 weirdos who are 85% committed.
D. I'm not sure, but you might be depriving them of the Gospel.
H. No YOU are betraying the Gospel by turning it into an elitist club for saintly middle class freaks and implying that everybody else is out.
D. But hell H, we need the saintly freaks! More than ever. I don't know what drives you, but I think I really like that Leon Bloy quote that "Any Christian who is not a hero is a pig". And you know what? That church structure you've got, I don't like it. You say you've got lots of people knocking on the door asking for food or petrol money and that you do what you can. My point is, they shouldn't all be knocking on YOUR door. What's the congregation doing? What solidarity exists between your folks? Are we all locked into a liberal panopticon of sorts? I need to be challenged.
H. You're right, in a way, you're right and I do challenge them. But you walking about blatantly hating their guts is not the way to do it.
D. So civilised dining with the conservative members of your church is the way forward.
H. Oh yes, it is.
1 comment:
Hmm..Yes Constantine's "conversion"
was big. But, maybe Paul right in there as #1 essential...he opened the sect (at the time) up to Gentiles. If not, from an historic if not theological, point of view, we (Christians) might still be a second tier Jewish sect...if that. Who knows? But, given the dynamics involved in our awareness of our mortality, we're gonna scamble around until we find a spiritual niche, anyway/anyhow. Don't you think?
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